Don't believe

Lais Franzen:

First of all, thank you for sparing some time for Kasade.

Francis Brunn:

I've already been in the magazine, haven't I?

Ulli Meister:

Yes, back in 1989.

FB:

That was our first time at the Tigerpalast. Doesn't time fly!

Nathalie Enterline:

Seems just like yesterday.

FB:

We're going to practise first, then let's go for a drink, OK? I always have to practise everything. Once I lose something, I'll never get it back.

LF:

How is your health these days?

FB:

I've got two cracked ribs. First I had neck problems and couldn't turn my head. I went to a chiropractor, but he wanted to start with my feet. I told him my feet are OK, it's my neck that's the problem. But he wanted to at least pick me up and push me or stretch me. And in doing so, he managed to break two of my ribs.

LF:

And yet you're still performing?

FB:

You know, it makes me laugh when I hear about Steffi Graf and her back trouble. She has to pay the price. If she's in pain, she should stop playing. After all, she's got enough money. But if she decides to play, she should stop complaining. If you want to be good, you have to suffer. I've got two cracked ribs, a plastic hip joint, and smashed up fingers. My body is a wreck. Dancers are all physical wrecks too. A friend of mine is 100 years old. Three years ago he said to me "Francis, when I look up I get giddy." I think that's perfectly normal. I've been getting giddy for the past twenty years.

UM:

Are you still using the same props as you always have?

FB:

Partly. I definitely need a new hat. I buy these balls from a factory in New Jersey, where Nathalie comes from. We're going there in a month's time, after a booking in Milan.

NE:

I'm looking forward to seeing my parents, and you're looking forward to getting a new set of balls.

FB:

This ball here is 45 years old. I have to keep shaving it, and it's slowly disintegrating. But they don't make 'em like that any more, and I can't do the trick with any other kind of ball.

UM:

I was surprised to see that you practise without music.

NE:

Yes, we do, but I can hear my music the whole time in my mind.

FB:

And I am accompanied on stage by my son Raphael on the guitar. He adapts to what I do. But sometimes he drives me crazy.

NE:

Francis used to have another guitarist. Raphael was more into heavy metal. If you asked him what he thought of flamenco, he always used to say it was "shit". But then one day it got to him. He was playing bass guitar at the time, but then he switched to flamenco guitar. And he's been accompanying us ever since.

FB:

In the past the music was always live, and I always had trouble with the music.
(By now we've reached a Frankfurt bistro)

LF:

Everyone's talking about the Rastelli centenary this year. After his death, you were pronounced as his successor. Here's a quote I've dug up from a chapter on Rastelli in a book called "Masters of the Circus" by Franz Xaver Dworschak, written in 1943.

FB:

Sorry, I haven't got my glasses with me. Could you read it to me, please?

LF:

Of course. "Franzl Brunn, a seventeen-year-old artist from Germany, has come several kilometres closer to him [Rastelli] in 1942, but it will still be a few years before even this phenomenal juggler attains Rastelli's level." And in this book, entitled "Variety - Entertainment in the Economic Miracle", there's a picture of you with the caption "Francis Brunn, the world's best Rastelli juggler".

FB:

How the hell did I get in there? Who wrote this?

LF:

A certain Rainer Berg. How do you feel about being compared with Rastelli?

FB:

For a start, don't believe everything you read about Rastelli. I once met Umberto Schichtholz [Rastelli's assistant - eds.], and he told me that all the stories were made up. I used to collect everything that was written about Rastelli, and I used to be pleased about the comparison.

NE:

But Francis has absolutely nothing in common with him.

FB:

No, nothing at all. He was a genius. He was the first person to bounce-juggle balls. But anyone who juggled with balls was dubbed a Rastelli.

UM:

Would you still want to become a juggler today?

FB:

Never!

NE:

He'd become a footballer and earn millions.

FB:

There's no market for juggling any more. In the old days there was a variety theatre in every city, but now there are only a few in the whole of Germany. In America there's nothing at all like that. I live in New York, but I can't work there. And the people don't want to see juggling either.

NE:

Wodartz took his Pomp Duck to the States, and was voted No. 1 in an American magazine - No. 1 in the Flop Top 10!

FB:

And nowadays everything has to be packaged.

LF:

Like in Cirque du Soleil?

FB:

Yes, exactly. I couldn't work there. I want to see the people on the stage.

NE:

In Cirque du Soleil the artists are interchangeable. If someone is ill, it doesn't matter, they just get someone else in.

UM:

What do you feel about the passing of an era? Eric Brenn, Bob Bramson and you are the last surviving representatives of the older generation of jugglers.

FB:

When I watch the old films see that they all had something that today's jugglers don't have any more. I don't know what it is. Perhaps it's personality, but I'm not sure. Today there's just a "concept", and everything is much of a muchness. When I see something, I know where it's come from. I only see the original. If someone in the old days had copied Rastelli, he would never have got a booking. That's changed today. Nowadays it's the copy that gets hired because it's cheaper - and of course not as good.

LF:

What makes an act good, in your opinion?

FB:

The main thing is that the act has to fit the juggler. Béla Kremo was a cigar salesman. Kris shows what he can do. Technically he's even much better, but he'll never be a cigar salesman. You have to show the audience something of yourself.

UM:

Have audiences changed over the years too?

FB:

I'm not so interested in the audience. For me, the biggest success is when the audience stays quiet, I don't need loud applause.

LF:

You mean, you prefer an audience that shows polite reservation.

FB:

That's right. In the old days people didn't go to the theatre to shout. Mind you, I hardly experienced the good old days of variety. I came on the scene five or six years too late.

UM:

But that was still better than performing today?

FB:

Yes. There's too much today, and too much rubbish. When I see a juggler doing a trick I like, I would never think of copying him. Even if could. I have never copied anyone. I never talk about juggling either, I don't even think about it.

NE:

It's like with actors. Al Pacino and Robert de Niro would never talk about movies. They live the movies.

FB:

Or take this computer juggling, ...

UM:

Yes, I'd be fascinated to hear what you think of that!

FB:

Listen, I once met someone who explained all about it. And now he keeps sending me letters full of mathematical formulae. He doesn't even start with "Dear Francis", he just writes figures. I don't get it!

LF:

What do you think he's trying to tell you?

FB:

No idea.

UM:

Have you ever taken part in a competition?

FB:

Circus competitions are a load of nonsense. You can't compare different acts with one another.

LF:

Too true. I once competed against some music groups that just mimed to playback music. That was really stupid.

FB:

You must be crazy. What made you do it?

LF:

The waywardness of youth.

FB:

Ten years ago Nathalie entered a competition. She's never normally nervous, but she was nervous there. I told her: "if you win, we're finished"

UM:

And, what happened?

NE:

I won. But I didn't accept the medal, I give it to Francis. And he quickly hid it away.

UM:

Does Francis Brunn, the living legend, have...

FB:

I'm not a living legend!

UM:

Oh yes you are. Do you have any dreams?

FB:

Yes, r would like to produce a show with really good artists.

LF:

Something like André Heller's Wintergarten, which you took part in?

FB:

No, not like that. I left the show. André Heller wanted to bury the last surviving artists. He's a bore and has nothing new to offer. And on top of that, he treats artists really bad[y. If he wants something changed in an act - which is a cheek in itself - then he doesn't say so directly, he gets one of his staff to pass on the message.

LF:

Yes, that's what I heard about his show "Begnadete Körper" .

NE:

That's not the way to handle people.

FB:

But it's difficult to get sponsors for my show. Who would be willing to put a million dollars into an idea with no guarantee of success? Even though there's definitely an audience for it. But when Michael Moschen played Broadway, people lost interest after the first half hour.

UM:

Why was that, do you think?

FB:

It's not easy for a physical show. Shows that express emotions, like singers, are more successful.

LF:

But David Copperfield is pretty successful, isn't he? Is that the same sort of thing?

FB:

David Copperfield is shit. He has umpteen machines, and he just presses a few buttons.

UM:

And you, Nathalie, don't you at least find him sexy?

NE:

(shakes head)

FB:

He's not even sexy. He looks like a cow.

UM:

Have you got any hobbies?

FB:

I love boxing. I watch every fight. I saw Max Schmeling fight Joe Louis.

LF:

Live or on TV?

FB:

There was no TV in those days, my boy! To tell you the truth, I heard it on the radio.

UM:

There's one question we can't help asking. Do you ever think of retiring?

FB:

I retired twenty years ago.

NE:

You wanted to retire at the age of 24.

FB:

That's true. When I was 21 - and I was very fast in those days, really damn fast - someone asked me how long thought I could carry on at that pace. I told him maybe one or two years, and I even believed it myself!

UM:

Well, I think that must be about all...

NE:

Anyway, we have to start thinking about getting ready for the two performances this evening.

FB:

Normally I don't like giving interviews, but this has been a really nice afternoon.

© Kaskade, 1996